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Talk:Umbra
Dump Ok took this from the WTA article. I'm dumping it here till I figure out where to put it in the umbra article. Whispering 05:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC) Next is the Near Umbra, which has little bearing on the real world. It is filled with more bizarre spirits and the Near Realms float in it, like fruit in Jello. These realms are reflections of a single idea, such as Pangaea, a primordial earth where dinosaurs still walk, to Atrocity where the Holocaust never ends and everyone is a victim, to Summer Country, a beautiful land of peace and harmony, to Erebus, a Garou hell that promises eternal torment in its rivers of molten silver. Farther still is the Deep Umbra which corresponds to space. The Penumbras of other planets rest here as do Realms dedicated to pure thought. Malfeas, the Realm of the Wyrm, rests in the Deep Umbra. Mixed into all these layers are sub realms, Glens, faerie rings, haunted sites, and any number of other bizarre things. The Umbra is ever changing and is considered by some Garou to be the true battlefield on which the Apocalypse will be fought. The Umbra and real world may seem to be seperate worlds, but they are still linked. Actions in either world echo between the two, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly and subtly. Chop down a tree in the real world, and eventually its spiritual counterpart will fade to nothingness. Chop it down in the Umbra, and the real world tree will die from spiritual shock. Spirits that are not tied to physical objects instead of a spiritual correspondence. For example, a spirit of violence may haunt an area with a high crime rate, subtly goading residents to ever more violent acts, and feeding off that violence. A Garou seeking to defeat such a spirit may find its own attempts to attack and destroy it only make the creature stronger. Only by eliminating its source of power can it be defeated. So the Garou might need to spend time trying to bring down the crime rate, counseling battered women, and eliminating gangs in an area in order to get rid of the spirits of violence infesting it. So while physical assault is often the first choice of many Garou, it often will not solve the problem. They cannot focus on the physical fight and ignore the spiritual component. Realms This is a summary page for the entire Umbra. A list of the realms and such found within each particlar section of the Umbra would be better placed on the subpages, like Astral Reaches, Spirit Wilds, True Horizon, and so forth. --Ian 03:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC) Penumbra/e Actually, WtA is pretty straightforward when he says that there are at least three Penumbrae. In Umbra (Rev) you can find a paragraph called "Other Penumbrae". The they describe Near, Dark and Deep Pernumbrae, and suppose the existence of an Astral Penumbra and of the Penumbrae of other planets. I don't know if this is true in MtA or other games. -- 09:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC) Vittek : It varies per book. Some of them imply there's a different Penumbra for each layer of the Umbra, while others imply there's a single Penumbra which all three Umbrae share. Given this, I think it's best to simply leave the notation that there are different opinions on matter. --Ian talk 17:56, 10 April 2009 (UTC) :: Actually, the page says the impression that there are 3 different Penumbrae is definitely a mistake. I'd add more uncertainity, as you have just suggested. As a side note, on Rev. you can find a rite that lets you enter the Dark Penumbra the next time you cross the Gauntlet. If you use the Single Penumbra, maybe the rite could only change your point of view when you recite it. Or it could be changed to a rite that lets you travel from Penumbra to Dark Umbra. Anyway, usually only Silent Striders and the Ivory Priesthood interact with wraiths and the dead, tanks to that Rite, so suddenly having such a crowded Penumbra is difficult for me to digest. Let me know what you think. --Vittek 20:00, 17 April 2009 (UTC)